Updated February 25, 2025 at 12:27 PM ET
Not long ago, Hungary wasn't on the radar for many Americans.
But the small country in central Europe — about the size of Indiana — has become the envy of some American conservatives in recent years, particularly President Trump and his inner circle.
Hungary — under the leadership of Prime Minister Viktor Orbán — isn't the democracy it used to be.
Orbán has weakened the country's judicial independence, clamped down on press freedoms and cleared the way for corruption to flourish, according to David Pressman, former U.S. ambassador to Hungary.
He doesn't describe what happened to that country's political system as "democratic backsliding."
"It's not an expression that I like to use because it suggests somehow that political leaders are, you know, trying to climb up Mount Olympus and are slowly slipping backwards," Pressman said.
Instead, he told NPR's Leila Fadel "the prime minister has made a very deliberate set of choices and actually turned around and headed in the opposite direction."
Pressman spoke with Morning Edition about Hungary's democratic erosion and the red flags for those who regard Hungary as a model to aspire to.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Leila Fadel: What tools did Orbán and his party use?
David Pressman: The first tool was essentially constructing a system where institutions are captured and then creating an architecture of rewarding and punishing. That entire ecosystem comes after and targets you in the most venal way. You know, the Hungarian government would seek to centralize control, for instance, of the civil service. So with teachers, they created a new law that effectively made it easier to fire teachers nationally, to reassign teachers to work in remote corners of the country. And I remember really vividly there was one young woman, a teenager at the time, who voiced opposition to this measure. And you watched how this very intensive media machine just went after this kid. And it's a clear message to anyone that the costs of disagreeing, the cost of engaging is so high. And as a result of that, a lot of people choose just not to. And if there's one thing that I think is really important for Americans to understand about Hungary is that there is this narrative that the Hungarian government is attempting to sell, both in the United States and in Europe, this bulwark of conservatism. That it is standing up for important values on issues that resonate with a lot of Americans, whether it's gays or guns or migration. But in fact, what's happening in Hungary isn't conservatism, it's corruption. And it's a system that's designed to enrich a clique of elites to take public assets and put them in private pockets while talking about standing up for conservative values.
Fadel: What conditions allowed for a figure like Orbán not just to come to power, but erode democratic institutions in the way that he and his party did?
Pressman: One, he began a massive transfer of public assets to an oligarch class around him. So it became very lucrative and attractive to be a Fidesz loyalist. And simultaneously, it became existentially challenging to exist if you were somehow outside the Fidesz, or the Orbán party system. And so, you know, it's no accident that the prime minister's best childhood friend went from being a plumber to Hungary's single most wealthy individual over the course of Viktor Orbán tenure. It's no accident that the Prime Minister's son in law is quickly on track to become one of the richest people in the country. And those financial rewards come from seizing public institutions and assets and transferring them to the control of private hands. So, for instance, under the guise of improving the educational system, all of the resources of the universities became the ownership assets of a single political party. And independent institutions like the National Academy of Sciences equivalent in Hungary, which is this 200-year-old institution, has this amazing tradition of achievement and intellect and academic contributions, becomes no longer independent. It gets seized by the government. And once seized, then the assets of that academy begin to be sold off at discount prices.
Fadel: This is something that prior to the election, Vice President Vance did praise. And to be clear, he was saying the universities are controlled by left wing foundations. And he was saying it in the context of feeling like conservative voices aren't valued at these universities.
Pressman: Right. And there is a debate about those issues in the United States. But anyone who is looking to Hungary as an example should understand clearly that what is happening is not an attempt to address cultural issues around conservative voices or liberal voices, but is an attempt to take assets and transfer them from the public purse to private pockets. One example that I would offer you that I think is telling is that there is a newspaper in Hungary called Magyar Hang. It is a conservative newspaper, but it is an independent newspaper, meaning it makes editorial decisions that are not directed by the government or a political party. Magyar Hang at present cannot find a single publisher print house in Hungary to print its newspaper. And so every day it drives across the border to Slovakia to have its newspaper printed and drives it back into Hungary. And it tells you something about the ecosystem where print houses are afraid to be affiliated with something that may be critical, even if it is a conservative viewpoint. So I think it's really important for Americans to be clear eyed that what is happening in Hungary is not a celebration of conservatism. What is happening in Hungary is an embrace of nihilistic corruption.
Fadel: Our mechanisms in other democracies, like the U.S. and other parts of Europe, are vulnerable to this kind of erosion. Is there something specific to Hungary or is this something that could happen really anywhere?
Pressman: Well, I think that institutions are just not as strong as we often think they are, and they're only as strong as the bravest politicians amongst us. And I think the lesson that I left Hungary with is that the messaging in Hungary, it's not like it's this super sophisticated political messaging. It's just that they're able to control the medium of communication to such a degree and repeat the same thing over and over again, that people become beat down and people become chilled from engaging in that kind of discourse. And at that moment, when that happens, and that was certainly the case in Hungary, democracy is at risk.
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